Preamble

Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

FIFE COUNTY COUNCIL ORDER CONFIRMA TION BILL,

"to confirm a Provisional Order under the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1936, relating to Fife County Council," presented by Mr. Ernest Brown; read the First time; and ordered (under Section 9 of the Act) to be read a Second time upon Thursday, 26th September; and to be printed. [Bill 85.]

Oral Answers to Questions — UNITED STATES MISSIONARIES, SUDAN (ITALIAN ATTACK).

Mr. Hannah: asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he has any statement to make about the killing of American missionaries in the Sudan by Italians?

The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Butler): Yes, Sir. I deeply regret to state that, according to reports telegraphed by the Governor-General of the Sudan, two Italian aircraft attacked the Sudan Interior Mission Station at Doro in the Upper Nile Province, 55 miles south-west of Kurmuk, at 10.30 a.m. on 23rd August. At least 30 bombs were dropped, and machine-guns were also used. Of the mission staff of five, Dr. and Mrs. Robert Grieve were killed and the Reverend and Mrs. Kenneth Oglesby wounded. All four victims were United States citizens, Miss Walsh, an Australian, escaping unhurt. In addition, a native girl and two boys were wounded. Dr. and Mrs. Grieve are reported to have fallen waving an American flag. The mission station at Doro is isolated far from any kind of military objective, but its location and nature were well known to the Italians, whose attack was clearly deliberate. This is shown by the fact that the Italian Commander at Kurmuk had sent a message earlier in August to the missionaries at Doro and Chali, another

station 35 miles south-south-west of Kurmuk, to report to him with passports. The reply to this message was under consideration by the missionaries when they were shot down in cold blood.

Mr. Hannah: Has this been brought to the attention of the American Government?

Mr. Butler: The American Government, I have no doubt, have observed this dastardly attack, and, no doubt, the publicity afforded by the hon. Member's Question will bring it further to the attention of the Americans.

Mr. Hannah: It is about time.

Oral Answers to Questions — DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR SERVICES (LOST BELONGINGS).

Mr. Vernon Bartlett: asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs why members of His Majesty's Diplomatic and Consular Services who have lost their belongings as a result of the invasion of the country in which they were employed are not to receive compensation until the end of the war?

Mr. Butler: Compensation to Diplomatic and Consular Officers within certain limits can be paid whenever it can be definitely established that their effects have been stolen, destroyed or rendered useless by deterioration. Owing to the difficulty of establishing the facts, in most cases capital compensation may have to he deferred until the end of the war, but in that event an annual percentage payment will be made to these officers as compensation for deprivation of the use of their furniture.

Mr. Bartlett: Is immediate compensation paid to Army officers who lost their belongings in France, or has that to wait too?

Mr. Butler: It is the annual percentage payment made in respect of loss of furniture. I will consider the other point that the hon. Member makes and see what I can do.

Oral Answers to Questions — CHINA (MEDICAL SUPPLIES).

Mr. Gallacher: asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether Red Cross equipment, supplies, vehicles, etc., are now exempted from the ban on goods passing along the Burma


Road to China, as it is almost impossible to find alternative means of transport of medical material and ambulances to the interior of China?

Mr. Butler: As I have informed the hon. Members for London University (Sir E. Graham-Little) and for East Wolver-hampton (Mr. Mander), the latter on 14th August, Red Cross supplies may be freely imported by the Burma Road.

Oral Answers to Questions — PALESTINE.

MILITARY SERVICE (JEWS).

Mr. Mander: asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies the present position with regard to the organisation of Jewish military forces in Palestine; and whether he is aware that, at the outbreak of war, the Jewish Agency organised the registration of the Jewish community for national service and obtained responses from 80,000 men and 50,000 women?

The Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies (Mr. George Hall): As regards the first part of the Question, there are no specifically Jewish military forces in Palestine. The majority of Palestinian Jews who have enlisted into the British Army have joined the Palestinian Companies of the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps, but a few have joined other corps, mainly R.A.S.C. and R.A.O.C. Further additional Palestinian Companies are now being formed for infantry battalions stationed in Palestine, enlistment into which is open to Jews equally with other inhabitants of Palestine. The answer to the second part of the Question is in the affirmative.

ETHIOPIAN CONVENT, JERUSALEM.

Mr. Noel-Baker: asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether His Majesty's Government have now instructed the High Commissioner in Palestine to give the custody of the Abyssinian convent in Jerusalem to those Abyssinians who were formerly recognised as the rightful owners?

Mr. Butler: The Ethiopian convent in Jerusalem has throughout remained in the custody of those Ethiopians who were regarded as its rightful owners before His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom recognised the King of Italy as

the de jure Emperor of Ethiopia. The actions brought in the Palestine courts by the Italian Government for possession of this convent and other Ethiopian property have been stopped by the entry of Italy into the war. No question of instructions therefore arises.

Mr. Noel-Baker: Does the right hon. Gentleman mean that the convent is in fact now in the hands of its Ethiopian owners?

Mr. Butler: Yes, Sir.

TANGANYIKA (MILITARY SERVICE).

Mr. David Adams: asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of the fact that compulsory service on behalf of the British war effort is enforced in Tanganyika, he will reconsider the position under which residents in Tanganyika are regarded as aliens in this country?

The Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Peake): I have been asked to reply. Residents in Tanganyika who are not British subjects and are not aliens are British protected persons. My right hon. Friend regrets that, as he has stated in answer to previous Questions, he is not prepared to exempt British protected persons, as such, from the provisions of the Aliens Order, but special and sympathetic consideration will be given to individual cases on their merits.

Mr. Adams: Surely it is reasonable, if these British protected persons in Tanganyika are compelled to fight on behalf of the country, that they should not be treated as suggested in the Question?

Mr. Peake: I understand that the Tanganyika Ordinance imposing compulsory military service applies only to local defence, to the defence, that is to say, of Tanganyika, and British protected persons resident in Tanganyika are not obliged to undergo compulsory military service in this country.

CYPRUS (ARCHBISHOPRIC).

Mr. Hannah: asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has any statement to make about the archbishopric of Cyprus?

Mr. George Hall: I regret that the difficulties which have arisen in regard to the election of an Archbishop of Cyprus have not yet been resolved. Further consideration is being given to the matter, but I am not in a position to make any statement at present.

LORRIES (INFLAMMABLEMATTER).

Mr. Rhys Davies: asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that two children were burnt to death recently on the main road in Platt Bridge, Wigan, through a barrel of inflammable liquid falling off a lorry and bursting into flames; and will he take steps to see that lorry owners shall be compelled in future to exercise greater care in loading their vehicles?

The Minister of Transport (Sir John Reith): Statutory regulations require loads on motor vehicles to be properly secured; the enforcement of the regulations is a matter for the police I understand that in this case proceedings were taken against the driver for driving his lorry with an insecure load, but the Court dismissed the charge.

Oral Answers to Questions — MINISTRY OF INFORMATION.

MINISTERS' BROADCASTS TO UNITED STATES.

Mr. G. Strauss: asked the Minister of Information whether he will arrange that important broadcasts by Ministers to the United States should be given at a time which will reach American listeners in the evening instead of in the afternoon?

The Minister of Information (Mr. Duff Cooper): The time of any Ministerial broadcast is fixed with a view to the convenience of the audience for which the broadcast is primarily intended. Thus broadcasts for North America are normally arranged at an hour corresponding to the peak listening time on the other side of the Atlantic. Ministerial broadcasts are, however, more often intended for home audiences. In such cases they are usually recorded and then repeated at an hour convenient for American listeners, if thought suitable.

POLISH PUBLICATIONS, GREAT BRITAIN.

Mr. Gallacher: asked the Minister of Information how many publications in

the Polish language have been given permission to commence publication in this country since 1st July; and whether their contents are submitted to censorship?

Mr. Cooper: I am informed that six papers in the Polish language have been published in this country since 1st July. They are under no obligation to seek permission from His Majesty's Government, nor have they in fact done so. Their contents are subject to the same system of voluntary censorship as English newspapers.

Mr. Gallacher: In view of the character of much that appears in these papers does the Minister not consider it desirable to give some attention to them?

REGIONAL LOCAL COMMITTEES.

Major-General Sir Alfred Knox: asked the Minister of Information what is the estimated annual cost of the regional local committees of the Ministry of Information?

Mr. Cooper: On the basis of recent accounts, the expenditure of the 338 regional local committees is at the rate of £7,200 per annum.

Sir A. Knox: Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that this expenditure is really justified, in view of the fact that in the last War we did not incur a similar expenditure, and now the country is much more united than it was in the last war?

Mr. Cooper: I have been looking very closely into the work of the local committees and have found very satisfactory results, and I have had very satisfactory reports from the Regional Commissioners.

Sir A. Knox: asked the Minister of Information what is the annual expenditure on weekly regional bulletins, and what is the average circulation?

Mr. Cooper: In the London Region 5,000 copies of a bulletin are issued weekly at an approximate cost, calculating postage at the normal public rates, of £13 10s. for each issue. In five other regions, bulletins have been issued at irregular intervals. The average circulation of these is about 600 copies, and the cost is approximately £8 for each issue.

Sir A. Knox: Would it not be possible for the information contained in these bulletins to be given to organs of the


Press and thus secure a bigger circulation?

Mr. Cooper: I am looking into that matter too. The demand for the bulletins varies in different districts. How far they are serving a useful purpose is now the subject of an inquiry.

Mr. George Griffiths: Is not some of the information in the bulletins secret information? Some Members are glad to get hold of them so that they can get to know something.

SPAIN.

Sir A. Knox: asked the Minister of Information whether he will take additional steps to make known in Spain the British point of view and so counteract enemy propaganda?

Mr. Cooper: Yes, Sir. Steps are being taken with the intention of making the British point of view better known in Spain than at present.

Sir A. Knox: Will the right hon. Gentleman send British newspapers to Spain? There is a great demand, and there is great difficulty in getting them.

Mr. Cooper: I am glad to say that steps have been taken in that matter, and a supply of British newspapers to Spain is now going regularly by air.

Mr. Shinwell: Will the right hon. Gentleman also make it clear that the British point of view in regard to Spain is not necessarily the view held by the hon. and gallant Gentleman who asks the Question?

Sir A. Knox: In the present state of international affairs should it not be our object to make as many friends as we can?

POSTAL SERVICES (AIR-RAID WARNINGS).

Sir Reginald Clarry: asked the Postmaster-General by what authority or arrangement certain essential Post Office services are suspended during the period of air-raid warnings; whether he is aware that in the Newport area, where regular nightly warnings, each lasting many hours, take place, the servants of his Department during such warnings adjourn their duties to proceed to a shelter, allowing the mail-bags coming into the railway

station to accumulate and lie unattended on the platform; and, as this accumulation impedes the working of the railway service which is carried on without voluntary interruption, and as the delays consequent upon the suspension of the duties of this branch of the Post Office jeopardise the national war effort, what steps he is taking to improve the situation?

The Postmaster-General (Mr. W. S. Morrison): The station at Newport adjoins the post office, and any mails have been cleared as quickly as circumstances have permitted. The rule hitherto has been for the postal staff to take cover on receipt of a public warning, but arrangements are now being made for a look-out to he kept, and work will as far as possible be continued until danger appears imminent. I understand that these arrangements meet with local approval.

Sir R. Clarry: Is the situation as outlined in the Question of general application throughout the country, and would it account for the regrettable delays in postal affairs during the past two or three weeks?

Mr. Morrison: The rule was general, as was explained in my original answer, but some weeks ago it was modified to the degree I have stated. The delay was mostly a matter of transport and alterations of train schedules.

RETIRED PAY AND PENSIONS (ROYAL WARRANT).

Mr. Ellis Smith: asked the Prime Minister whether he will move to appoint a Select Committee to investigate the Royal Warrant for the Retired Pay and Pensions, etc., Command Paper 6205, the administration of the Ministry of Pensions, giving the committee power to receive evidence from organisations, ex-service men, widows, applicants for pensions, and to send for persons, papers and records?

The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Attlee): The Royal Warrant which was issued so recently as June last was the result of a detailed examination of the existing Warrant carried out by the Minister of Pensions in consultation with his statutory Advisory Committee. The Committee was reconstituted for the purpose and was composed of representatives of the British Legion and War Pensions


Committees, together with seven members of this House nominated by the Whips of the three political parties. The Committee's proposals were substantially accepted by the Government, and are embodied in the new Warrant. In the circumstances I see no grounds for appointing a Select Committee.

Mr. Smith: Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that that answer is not satisfactory, but that in view of the present situation it is not opportune to press the matter, although we shall return to it at a later date?

ALLIED NATIONALS, GREAT BRITAIN (MILITARY SERVICE).

Mr. Mander: asked the Prime Minister whether he proposes to introduce legislation giving powers to Allied Governments in this country to call up their nationals for compulsory military service; and to what extent they already exercise powers of this kind?

Mr. Attlee: His Majesty's Government intend to submit to Parliament in due course legislation to confer the necessary authority upon the Allied Governments in this country to call up their nationals for military service in accordance with their own existing national laws, but in conformity with uniform arrangements for the employment of all Allied manpower on war service. Until this legislation has been passed the position remains that the Allied Governments have the right to call upon their nationals in this country for military service in accordance with their own national laws, but that our own Courts and authorities have no power to assist the Allied Governments in enforcing such obligations for military service upon any of their nationals who may be unwilling to respond voluntarily.

Mr. Mander: May I take it that the Allied Governments are desirous of having these extra powers of compulsory calling up?

Mr. Attlee: Clearly.

Mr. Rhys Davies: When such legislation is brought forward, will the problems of hardship and conscientious objection be considered, as is the case in our own law?

Mr. Attlee: I explained in my answer that it will be in accordance with the law

of those countries. If the law of the particular country allows conscientious objection, the legislation will cover that, but if the law of the country does not allow it, the legislation will not.

Miss Rathbone: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there might be difficulties in such legislation arising out of the fact that at least two of the Allied Governments represented have strongly anti-Semitic and reactionary tendencies, which make it very difficult for some of their nationals in this country to serve willingly in their Forces, and that many of them would rather serve with the British Forces or with the Pioneer Corps?

Mr. Lees-Smith: With regard to my right hon. Friend's reply concerning the differentiation between our system of conscription and that of the Allied nations, and the decision that the Allied nations' system shall be applied, will my right hon. Friend refer to the speech that was made by the Joint Under-Secretary of State for War in the Debate on this subject, because my impression is that the statement then made does not fully correspond with the statement which has just been made to the House?

WAR HONOURS, DECORATIONS AND MEDALS (COMMITTEE).

Mr. Ammon: asked the Prime Minister whether he will give the names of the personnel of the Committee on the Grant of Honours and Medals in Wartime?

Mr. Attlee: The Committee on the grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals in time of war serves under the chairmanship of the Permanent Secretary to the Treasury. The other members are the Permanent Heads of the Admiralty, Air Ministry, Colonial Office, Dominions Office, Foreign Office, India Office and War Office, together with the Private Secretary to the King, the Prime Minister's Private Secretary, the Secretary of the Central Chancery of the Orders of Knighthood, the Naval Secretary to the First Lord of the Admiralty, the Military Secretary to the Secretary of State for War, the Member of the Air Council for Personnel, and the Secretary, Military Department, India Office. The Secretary to the Committee is an Officer of the Treasury. The Permanent Heads of cer-


tain other Departments of State are added to the Committee when matters specially concerning those Departments are under consideration.

Mr. Ammon: May I ask whether the gentleman who presides over the Committee is Sir Horace Wilson, and whether this is the Committee which decided that an equal award should not be given for equal merit in the Royal Air Force?

Mr. Attlee: I cannot say anything without notice with regard to what previous decisions have been made. The Permanent Secretary to the Treasury is Sir Horace Wilson.

Mr. Ammon: Does not this indicate that persons prejudiced on social lines are given an opportunity of deciding these matters?

Mr. Riley: Is it satisfactory that such powers should be placed in the hands of civil servants to decide without any authority from the Government or Members of the War Cabinet?

Mr. Granville: Is it intended to co-opt somebody connected with the Civil Defence services on that Committee?

Mr. Attlee: I should require notice of that Question.

Sir Henry Morris-Jones: Will this Committee take into consideration the question of grants of honours for civilian heroism in war-time, in view of recent developments in this country?

Mr. Riley: Is it satisfactory that a Committee of this kind should have this responsibility?

Mr. Attlee: That is a matter of opinion. In reply to the hon. Member for Denbigh (Sir H. Morris-Jones), this Committee does take into account civilian acts of gallantry.

Mr. Shinwell: Surely my right hon. Friend does not regard an important matter of this kind as a matter of opinion?

Mr. Attlee: I was asked the question as a matter of opinion. This is a committee which deals with the general details of the matter, because the main matters of policy concerned are dealt with by the Government. The responsibility for the award of honours is the responsibility of the Government.

Mr. Ammon: I beg to give notice that I intend to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

Oral Answers to Questions — MINISTRY OF SUPPLY.

SAWMILLS.

Mr. Rhys Davies: asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that the number of sawmills in this country is inadequate to cut the available home-grown timber; and will he take steps to remedy this deficiency?

The Minister of Supply (Mr. Herbert Morrison): Yes, Sir. Steps are being taken for the full use of existing sawmills, and new portable mills are being put into operation as speedily as they can be procured.

WASTE SALVAGE.

Mr. Keeling: asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that large quantities of paper and other articles suitable for salvage are still put into dustbins and lost; and whether he will again consider the proposal that householders be required by order to keep such things for separate collection?

Mr. H. Morrison: In view of the response by householders generally to the appeals for their co-operation in the salvage campaign, and having regard to present circumstances, I do not consider it desirable to make an order at this juncture in the sense suggested by my hon. Friend.

RAILWAY CHARGES.

Mr. Gallacher: asked the Minister of Supply whether he has made an estimate of the increased extra cost to be borne by his Department on the basis of the increased rates for which the railway companies are now applying?

Mr. H. Morrison: The preparation of an estimate of the kind the hon. Member has in mind would require special inquiries and investigation of prices, which I do not think I should be justified in having undertaken at the present time.

Mr. Gallacher: Does not the Minister feel that it would be quite right for his Department to make such an estimate, and to join in the public opposition to the demands of the railway companies?

Mr. Morrison: After consideration, I have taken the view that it would not be appropriate that the considerable time


that would be involved should be utilised by the Ministry for this purpose.

Mr. Shinwell: While appreciating that there would be some difficulty in making an estimate of the kind asked for, I take it that it is to be assumed that my right hon. Friend is concerned about a possible increase in freights?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir, to the extent that the Ministry of Supply would be involved in the movement of transportation, but I think it would be unwise to divert the energies of my officers to the considerable labour of finding out these figures.

Oral Answers to Questions — FOOD SUPPLIES.

ANIMAL FATS.

Mr. Parker: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food who disposes of the edible and other fats of animals killed in Government slaughterhouses; are they in the hands of a monopoly; what Government control is exercised over it; what are the ruling prices per pound for fats; and how do these compare with the pre-war figures?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food (Mr. Boothby): All raw fats of animals killed in Government slaughter-houses are distributed by the Chairman of the local Fat Melters Advisory Committees to melters licensed by the Ministry. No monopoly exists outside the Ministry's control. The fats are the Ministry's property and are sold to the individual melters for manufacture into dripping and tallow, in accordance with Ministry instructions. Weekly returns of raw fats required and finished products manufactured are made to the Ministry. The price charged to melters for sweet fat used for making dripping is 2.4d. per lb.; the pre-war price averaged 1.5d. per lb. The price charged for inedible fat used for making tallow varies in different areas, but is of the order of .32d. per lb. There was no firm market price for inedible offals before the war. The maximum statutory price for dripping is 6d. per lb.; before the war the price varied from 5d. to 10d. per lb.

DAIRY PRODUCTS.

Colonel Carver: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether, in addition to the introduction of the National Milk Powder Scheme, it is

proposed still further to compete with or control dairy products?

Mr. Boothby: The manufacture of and trade in butter, cheese and condensed milk are already controlled, and a similar control for milk powder is under consideration.

MILK.

Rear-Admiral Beamish: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food what plans he has in view for the reorganisation of the milk distributing industry?

Sir Herbert Williams: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether it is intended to introduce any changes in the methods of milk distribution?

Mr. Boothby: I regret that I am unable to make any statement on this matter until my Noble Friend has received the report of the Committee which he has appointed to advise him on the costs of milk distribution.

Rear-Admiral Beamish: Has the Minister any idea when this report is likely to be received?

Mr. Boothby: We expect it before the end of this month.

Mr. David Adams: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food the number of persons entitled to benefit by the cheap or free milk scheme, and the actual numbers now receiving the same with the percentage in receipt of free milk?

Mr. Boothby: The particulars desired by my hon. Friend are being obtained, and I will send them to him as soon as possible.

Mr. Thorne: Is there any shortage of milk, because it is very difficult to obtain even a small glass of milk in a restaurant? Even this morning I found it difficult to obtain a glass of milk.

Mr. Boothby: No, Sir, so far as I am aware, but if the hon. Member will send me particulars, I will be glad to look into them.

Mr. Adams: As there happens to be a wide discrepancy between those who can take advantage of the scheme and those who do not, will special steps be taken to bring it to general notice?

Mr. Boothby: Yes, Sir. There is a smaller percentage taking advantage of the scheme in Scotland compared with England, and steps have been taken to draw the attention of the Scottish public to the scheme.

Miss Rathbone: Is it not a fact that there is a special need for co-operation between the health and education authorities, and a special need for provision for children who are of school age but who are unable to attend school? At the present time they are not provided for in the free and cheapened food schemes.

Mr. Boothby: No, Sir, the hon. Member is misinformed. Under a recent decision all children under five, whether at school or not, can now be provided for.

Miss Rathbone: My Question refers to children over five who are prevented from attending school for health reasons or because the schools have closed down. I think the Minister will find that that is a neglected class under the present arrangement.

Mr. Boothby: They do not come under this scheme.

WHOLEMEAL FLOUR.

Sir Francis Fremantle (for Sir Ernest Graham-Little): asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether there are any stocks in this country of wholemeal flour comparable in amount to the stocks of white straight-run flour to implement his undertaking that wholemeal flour can be purchased on the same terms as white flour; and what information he has more recent than that contained in the Royal Commission Report of 1921 as to the preference for white flour which he ascribes to the community generally?

Mr. Boothby: No stocks of wholemeal flour, beyond ordinary trade stocks, are being carried, for the reason that wholemeal flour deteriorates rapidly in store. Exact figures of the quantity consumed are not available, but the proportion lies between 5 per cent. and 10 per cent. of total output. Wholemeal flour is available at the same price as white flour, and the high consumption of the latter appears to afford sufficient evidence of the public's preference.

WHEAT.

Mr. John Morgan: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether imported wheat is available to poultry keepers at or about the price paid for it, or are poultry keepers to be charged English wheat prices?

Mr. Boothby: Supplies of imported wheat are not now being issued for the feeding of poultry or any other class of livestock. Any stocks of such wheat that may remain in the hands of the trade cannot be sold at a price above that prescribed in the Feeding-stuffs Maximum Prices Order of 30th July, namely, £7 4s. 1d. per ton, which is less than half the maximum price for home-produced wheat.

SUGAR.

Mr. J. Morgan: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food the basis for the recent increase in the shopping price of sugar, seeing that the world price for sugar is continually falling, and that Cuban new contract price is less than ½d. per pound prime cost?

Mr. Boothby: Sugar supplies for this country are drawn mainly from Empire sources, and purchases of Cuban sugar have been relatively small. The recent increase in the retail price is due to increases in costs of the raw sugar and of freights, insurance, refining, storage, transport and distribution.

Mr. Morgan: Although we are not buying from Cuba, is it not a fact that Cuba is an index of world prices of sugar? Is it not a fact that sugar has fallen by one-half in the last 12 months on the world markets?

Mr. Boothby: The price of sugar has gone down slightly on the world market, but we have always confined ourselves mainly to Empire purchases, in view of the dollar situation.

Mr. Morgan: Does not a halfpenny per pound increase represent the prime cost of the sugar?

Mr. Boothby: I have explained in my answer that there are various factors which have increased the cost to us beyond the price of the raw sugar.

Mr. Morgan: But you are making a profit on it?

Mr. Boothby: I would not go so far as to say that.

INTERNEES.

Mr. Mander: asked the Home Secretary whether he will consider the advisability of authorising commandants of internment camps to give permission on their own responsibility for internees to keep visa appointments at the American and other consulates in London, to pay visits to relatives who are seriously ill, or to receive visits from business associates?

Mr. Peake: As regards visits to consulates by intending emigrants, a careful scheme has been worked out which will, I hope, avoid delays, and the operation of this scheme would be hindered rather than helped by leaving to each commandant a discretion to make his own arrangements. As regards visits to relatives who are ill, it is occasionally possible to allow a visit under escort if only a short journey is involved, but often these cases are met by releases under Category 18 of the White Paper. Visits to internees must be governed by a general policy, and for this purpose the system of requiring applications to be made to the Home Office must be maintained.

Mr. Mander: Is the Minister aware that a number of internees have lost their boats to the United States owing to the fact that commandants in the camps have no authority to permit them to go to visa appointments without referring to the Home Office? Is not that a matter which ought to be put right?

Mr. Peake: I regret to say that there was some delay and confusion in this matter in the early stages of general internment. We have now worked out a scheme with the co-operation of the Consulates and the Central Refugee Cornmittee at Bloomsbury House, which, I think, will work smoothly and expeditiously.

Mr. Mander: Is it still necessary for commandants to obtain permission from the Home Office in every case, even where it is obvious that appointments should be made?

Mr. Peake: I will communicate the details of the scheme to the hon. Member.

Mr. Noel-Baker: Does the Minister mean that the new scheme has been brought into force and that delays have already been eliminated?

Mr. Peake: I hope so.

Sir H. Williams: Does it cover the case of interned persons who desire to go to the United States before the end of this month and cannot do it while they are interned?

Mr. Peake: I really do not follow the question, which appears to me to relate to the question of releases on business grounds.

Sir H. Williams: Temporary releases.

Mr. Peake: That is not provided for except in the case of extreme hardship or illness.

Miss Rathbone: Is the Minister aware that the greatest feeling of bitterness is in the case of those who are going to the United States and who are kept in internment up to the last minute and cannot therefore wind up their affairs? Is the Minister not going to make some change to release these persons a few days before they leave the country?

Mr. Peake: A change has already been made in the procedure in that respect. Arrangements have been made for the release of internees as soon as their visas have been granted.

Major Milner (for Mr. Silverman): asked the Home Secretary whether he will make arrangements to secure that when an alien is released upon medical grounds his interned wife shall be released simultaneously, so that invalids shall not be left without the requisite care and attention?

Mr. Peake: When it is decided to release a married man from internment it is already the practice to consider the question of releasing his wife if she also is interned.

Major Milner: Has an order been given that the wife shall be simultaneously released with the husband?

Mr. Peake: Certainly not. The women who are interned are all in either Category A or B. It is obvious that there must be special security grounds for maintaining the internment of the wife, but if the husband is released because he is an invalid or infirm, there is a strong prima facie case for the release of the wife so that she can look after him.

Miss Rathbone: May I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply, which will give satisfaction to many internees and their wives, and ask whether that practice will


happen automatically and that we need not make a special application for the release of a wife when the husband is released because of sickness?

Mr. Peake: I said in my original answer that it is already the practice to consider these cases without special application being made.

Major Milner: Is my hon. Friend aware that the practice is not in fact being carried out?

SECRET SESSION.

The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Attlee): Mr. Speaker, I beg to call your attention to the fact that strangers are present.

Mr. Speaker: The Question is, "That strangers be ordered to withdraw."

Question put, and agreed to.

Strangers withdrew accordingly.

The following record of the subsequent proceedings is taken from the Votes and Proceedings:

Resolved, "That the remainder of this day's Sitting be a Secret Session."—(Mr. Attlee.)

ADJOURMENT.

Resolved, "That this House do now adjourn."—(Capt. Margesson.)

Adjourned accordingly at One Minute before Four o'clock.

[The following Report of the Secret Session was issued under the authority of MR. SPEAKER;

"The House went into Secret Session, and a Debate took place on the recent aerial bombardment of the country.

Members representing London and other constituencies affected drew attention to the many problems which have arisen.

The Minister of Home Security and the Minister of Health replied to the Debate."]